Machin Forum Forum Index Machin Forum
THE place to discuss the definitive stamp
 
 FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileProfile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Deegam Reports #101

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Machin Forum Forum Index -> Deegam
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
cdj1122
Machin Man


Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 952
Location: Houston, Texas pending eye surgery

PostPosted: Thu Jan 17, 2013 9:40 pm    Post subject: Deegam Reports #101 Reply with quote

The latest Deegam updates have been posted.

Doug has the details about the bright new red color issue.

And there is an explanation of the Irridescent shifts and an expansion of the "IS" notations.
Quote:

" .... Irridescent code notations
Shifts in two directions, vertical and horizontal, have been reported by Eustaquio Kirby and Simon Scott. To accommodate these, the notations employing compass points announced in DGR98 have been expanded as under:

ISNW (upward and leftward)
ISNE (upward and rightward)
ISSE (downward and rightward)
ISSW (downward and leftward) ...."
- Deegam Report #101

_________________
" .... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Charlie Jensen
Lecanto, Florida
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Gooner
Machin Man


Joined: 25 May 2007
Posts: 1270
Location: England, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Moderator Comment:

Moved to correct forum
_________________
Regards
Dave
http://www.stamp-collector.co.uk
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website
microtrev
Gold Poster


Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:55 pm    Post subject: Irridescent shifts Reply with quote

Hi, Having recently read the comment about the shifts in irridescent layer(& not having a Deegam catalogue) I was wondering how much of a shift qualifies as a "shift".
I have come across quite a few where the shift leaves probably less than 1mm of the colour of the stamp showing (without overlay)& some where the shift is sideways & vertical on the same stamp, but judging by the prices on Connoisseur website it seems to make a difference.
So before I just put them in my mixed bag of machins I would be glad of any help.
trev Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
cdj1122
Machin Man


Joined: 08 Jul 2007
Posts: 952
Location: Houston, Texas pending eye surgery

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 10:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To meet the Deegam Criteria for a phosphor shift, the phosphor must clear the perforations, but remember, to use this rule of thumb, the image on the stamp in question must be well centered.
This is explained in great detail with images to provide examples in both DR-53-5 and the handbook in Chapter 11, pages 12, 13, and 14.
That is because it can be that, what appears to be a phosphor shift is caused by the perfs, which are added after the image, not being well centered.
In sideways shifts, pay attention to the phosphor being clear of the regular perfs, but not quite of the elliptical perforation and thus as far as the Deegam Handbook is concerned, while interesting, that shift fails to meet the established criteria.
As mentioned this is all explained clearly both in prose and drawings, and then the chapter leads into a discussion of Doug's "SIN" system of identifying the different variations of different shifts.
The "SIN" system was disappointment to me as it refers to whether the bar is;
"Short, Inset or Notched"
and not what I originally thought.
"Short = Up or down or both,
Inset = Left or right,
And,
Notched = When the bar was intended to be notched to allow for a multi-value pane that has stamps with different, sometimes complex bar arrangements is not correctly aligned.
It is also possible that what should be a full sized bar covering the stamp and not the gutter betwixt adjacent stamps is misaligned so far that is appears to be "interrupted" when you examine the stamp.
Finding such an example while sorting common kiloware will set the collectors heart a-thumping.

This is but a brief blurb to answer the query but the Handbook covers this in great detail and without a copy ( Shameless plug: Now available on a disc as so many sources of information are.) of the Complete Deegam Machin Handbook so much is being missed.

Obviously other catalogs may use different criteria, but the Deegam is really the most comprehensive source of information about the ubiquitous Machin issue.
_________________
" .... You may think you understood what you thought I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you think you heard is not what I thought I meant. .... "
Charlie Jensen
Lecanto, Florida
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
tangles2010
Diamond Poster


Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 105
Location: Canberra, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 6:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm not sure that the Deegam criteria for phosphor band shifts really help with this question. The iridescent overprints when perfectly applied aren't anywhere near the perforations - they are on the design only. And you don't get notched etc overprints - the overprint is a continuous field across the design, so the overprint shift is always either inset (i.e., shifted right or left) or shifted upwards or downwards.

On many of the booklet stamps the overprint shift can be quite spectacular - i.e. about 1mm. The main exception I have noticed is on the 6x1st Diamond Jubilee booklet, which has a very minor shift of only about .5mm. This booklet is listed by at least one Machin retailer, who advised me that their booklets show the same degree of minor shifting. There are probably other examples of minor shifts but I haven't seen any.

What kind of prices is Connoisseur asking for these? Generally speaking I haven't found these to be too expensive to date, although of course I expect to pay more for a shift in a 12x1st booklet than a shift in a 6x1st booklet!

Cheers

Daniel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
microtrev
Gold Poster


Joined: 02 Jul 2012
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 12:56 pm    Post subject: Iridescent shifts Reply with quote

Hi Daniel,
Thanks for your reply & yes it was the iridescent shifts I wanted to
ask about rather than phosphor.
Like you I have found maybe 100s with upto 1.5 mm shifts,mostly I find the shifts less than 1mm sometimes up/down , sideways but also sideways & up/down on the same stamp. Interesting. And as I go through 15 kg of 1st & 2nd class security "unchecked kiloware"(I'm sure it was checked through ).
I have found many many with the shifts.
I'm not really concerned with their value ,but on connoisseur site MINT SINGLES are priced at approx 10 which would suggest they're scarce . The used ones certainly arnt or am I missing something.
I've also found several smudged letters on the iridescent layer to the point to be unreadable.
AND where are all the new red machins? I haven't had one on any post this year or are they only produced for collectors instead of post ?
Trev
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
tangles2010
Diamond Poster


Joined: 26 Jul 2010
Posts: 105
Location: Canberra, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jul 18, 2013 11:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I haven't seen as many as you, but living down under I don't really get access to kiloware! However, I don't think I've ever paid more than about 20 pounds for a complete mint booklet with all the Machin stamps showing a shift in the overprint. 10 pounds per stamp seems a bit extravagant, but then I am not a dealer so don't really know.

I haven't seen that many stamps with both a sideways and vertical shift. Most of the ones I've seen have a shift at one side alone. In fact, I think I only have one booklet with a shift to two sides, and I think at one of the sides it is a very minor shift only.

The early 2009 security issues often had very faint overprints (at least on the 1st class issues) and I have a coil strip of the traditionally gummed 1st class MRIL stamps where the overprint is almost invisible and just shows up very faintly under a 10x glass - a dry print, I suspect. I haven't seen too many smudged issues and wonder whether that may not be smudging from the process of going through the post. Or are they maybe kept in humid conditions prior to use? Dunno!

Like you, I haven't received many red Machins in the post, but didn't a lot of people stock up on 1st and 2nd class Machins prior to the 2012 price increase? I suspect those stocks will take a little while to be run down!

Cheers
Daniel
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Yahoo Messenger MSN Messenger
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    Machin Forum Forum Index -> Deegam All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group